Veteran Voices: Captain Ben Walls, US Army Officer

They served with courage, now they speak with truth. This is veteran voices joining us in the studio. Captain Ben Walls, welcome to the program. Yeah, thank you. This is gonna be a lot of fun, no doubt. I'm telling you this is gonna be fun. I'm excited about it. I know Trend's excited about So first question I got before we dive into everything. If you just say, Captain Ben Walls, how do you know in the military the difference between Army, Navy, Air Force? Is there a difference or you could be a captain in. The Navy, So yeah, what's the proper way of saying it? Well, it's still the right. So the differentiation, So the Navy captain is the equivalent. Of a colonel okay, full bird got Jeremy. So basically there's some crossover, but different ranks in regards e chalance. So it's but. If I sit it to a military person, Captain Ben Walls, they know exactly. Yeah, as long as you say you know Army Okay, okay, cool, because obviously I was if I was a Navy of you, like core higher ranked. Yeah, oh, I get it. And should we as civilians refer to you as former Captain Ben Walls. Is it now? Is it Captain Ben Walls? The rest of your life? And just to be up front, I know Ben because I've worked with him in construction for a couple of years. Well, he's doing all the construction. I'm just walking over and he's just observing still and you and I were talking and I realized, this dude is one of the most organized construction guys I've ever been around. And we just started talking and I realized it. It's his army background. And I was like, Hey, we do this thing and one thing led it done to another and here he is. Well, we're tickled to death. And I know you probably hear this, but we do appreciate your service in the military. And I do want to ask a question. Do you get like, because people say it, thank you for your service, right, but does it become do you does it become a thing where you're just saying it to say it, or do you get the impression that when people say it, they're really think Because I know Trent and I are extremely dedicated to, you know, the military, like we're sincerely thankful because we understand we don't get to do what we do here without you guys. Sacrifice. Yeah, it's to be kind of a catchphrase, especially like you know, go to Lows or home Depot and you use your card to get the discount and thank you for your service something. It's just you know, yeah, I don't want it's something that obviously they'd being nice. I I don't know. It's two parts, at least in my perspective. I didn't serve a full twenty years, so it's kind of like one of those things where like, yeah, I served, I didn't do all I could have done comparatively, but it's still appreciated. When people say. Something like that, it's not and it doesn't he knows, not as much as you would think. Therefore, it doesn't really bother me because it's once in the blue moon comparatively, so it's not a big deal. It's just there's a moment I'm like, man, I really didn't do as much as I could have, but yeah, thank you. Well that's you sound like a typical person who served. You're very humble and that's very much appreciative. Yeah. Well let's dive in. So how did h where does what has been called originally home where you were born? And raised. So I grew up in Smithfield, Virginia. Okay, so it's it's still in the seven five to seven area code, but it's small little town on the peripheral. And so I grew up there, and I actually went to high school in Yorktown. So I drove across the change for a bridge every day. Well, you know, I wasn't a fourteen year old driver obviously, but I was still still getting a lot of miles in, So it was it was definitely a good area to grow up in. Obviously a lot of military down there. Yeah, not too much army other than Fort Eustace, which was funny. My parents have a property where where I grew up and where they currently live. It's called Morgart's Beach. That's right on the James River. And you can see across James River right to where Fort Eustace is and then also the idle Fleet is due you know, northwest, so I could see that growing up, and it's Eustace. So is that where there was a hotels a chamberlain. Is that not Eustace? That's probably the wrong one. Probably it's Fort usis Langley Air Force Base near there too. So Langley Air Force Base, so Fort Eustace is more of a I got you there logistician, like a supply type, and they have a couple of different units of course there. But I never really went onto that installation until I got into the Guard and they actually have some ranges there, which is pretty funny because it's not very big installation. So I was like, oh, there's actually a IN four range back here. Cool and you kind of shoot off towards the river. Kind of what high school would you go to? It? So it was a small a Christian school called Summit Christian Academy in town, so it was it was a cool experience, but ultimately growing up there was great and that was kind of the military interests. Most of it is really derivative of my family background, his grandfather, dad, and my brother. And my brother is twelve years older than me, and so he actually did full twenty he did twenty three or four. I always say it wrong and he's like, hey, you shaved a couple of years off, buddy. So obviously I want to be like my big brother, and so that's one of the main interests and that was my goal from probably when I was eight years old. I just wanted to be in the army. Yeah, and so. My dad was like, hey, you really should consider going to college and I was like, ah, that makes sense, and then ultimately was like, hey you want you to think about ARTC. He was like, well that. Kind of nests perfectly with everything I would like to do. So wound up going to Liberty. Oh yeah. And so so was that influence at the Christian school Liberty? Yeah? I mean, I mean is that how. You find out about Liberty universities through Christian School? Basically? I mean you don't have a lot of options. No, it was. It was funny because my dad is like, hey, you can go to these different colleges, but I'm only going to pay for Liberty. Well, then I go to Liberty. I get a four year scholarship through the Arts C program, so he won't. I don't know this. Liberty had an R two C program. Wow, that's cool because I didn't know that either. Well, so it's interesting is that it's actually a I think it's congressional in regards to having your your primary arts program. So UVA is the primary and they'll have these satellite schools. Huh. At least when I was going it might be different now, but ultimately we were underneath the UVA Wow. But interesting enough, we had more cadets and so we're like, we're just rocking it out. We had a whole bunch of guys and giles, of course, and so four years there and commissioned out of there. So it was a great experience with the great institution. One of the cadret members teachers was Major Donahue. I don't know if that name's grab. He actually passed away overseas an idy attack, and so I had him as a as a teacher. It was a great influence, solid guy, and so kind of getting into the ARTC program and having these great mentors really set me up for continuing my interest in pursuing that that path. So when you're in that program, when you graduate, you know your path sort of or. To a degree. It's interesting. So it's very competitive. Well, I guess different administrations make that case or not. So when I was coming up, there was a big interest in having because they're talking about the surge, which is during during Afghanistan, but they're basically saying, hey, we're going to need a lot more officers. We're getting ready to go into a. Big push and just two thousand. Yeah, ok, yeah, So ultimately. Interesting enough, you can have a bunch of cadets in these programs and not all of them gets appointed to be an actual officer, or not all of them will get an active slot. They'll actually go, hey, thank you for doing this. You have been selected to be an officer, but you're going to go to the reserves. So you're going to go to the National Guard. So it's kind of this very competitive dynamic. You obviously, hey, I'm really wanted to be in the active Army. So they have this Order of Merit list, so you're based on grades, based on the actual military program. They'll have different leadership quality type of things that look for, and so they'll evaluate you and then they'll put you on this order. And so they actually had fortunately enough enough slots for me to go to the active route. And so once you get your orders, you you kind of get nested. You say, hey, cool, you got selected to be an armor officer. So in that OML, the Order Merit list you you picked, Hey, these are my top three I really want to do X, Y and Z. Well it's funny because that wasn't the smartest guy of course I'm not still not the smartest guy, but ultimately I picked high and I didn't get picked the one I wanted. So I was like, hey, I want to be cool. I want to go aviation, which is very very competitive, infantry, which is actually very competitive really, and then engineer, which was like kind of a throwle. I was like, oh, yeah, let's try this. So then they're like, hey, cool, cadet walls. You got air defense artillery, which is like the inverse and no one wants there. Well sorry for whoever's listening to the air defense, but it was one of those things like, oh that's a letdown. But by the way, if you look further down this order, you're going to branch detail armor. So basically what the big Army says is, hey, we have kind of a pyramid. We have different task orgs that don't need a lot of second lieutenants early on. They want them to be more mature, so I first lieutenant captaint type thing. Usually that's for like military intelligence or I guess technically I might butcher this of course, but there's another branch that is kind of top heavy that they went higher ranks, and so they'll they'll branch detail out, let them go get their their lower years or you know, second lieutenant, first lieutenant years, and then they'll let them come back. To the fold quote unquote. So at the time, Ida was like, hey, we don't need any second lieutenants armors, Like, yeah, we do. So I got armor, which was a godsend, honestly, a great branch to be a part of. It's armored tanks with. Yeah, so there's two there's two parts the armor and it falls. So it's it's armor traditional being tanks. So the Abrams and Bradley's and then they. Actually have cavalry and so that's just light. Basically you're in hum Vy's or in raps or TVs and so the traditional scout reconnaissance type. Mission has just let me think it's something. So, I mean we see constantly the glory stuff of aircraft that changes, right, does tanks change? You know? We still so as you mention those names and those names seem old. Oh yeah, So the Abrams and I'm gonna butcher this because like I said, I was a cavalry officer, so I kind of after my training for the armor basic corse, I didn't never touch the tank again. But they Basically, the army has invested in these main battle tanks and they've been doing these versions basically they're they're upfitting them with new technology, incorporating different aspects of it. So they're on like version three now, so the same platform that's been in existence since I think the nineties, which I could be butchering that of course, but ultimately that investment, that core investment, they're trying to just keep working off of that. It's like an iPhone, Yeah, just keep new version. Yeah. Got, it's really cool. All right. So you end up in cavalry very like a lighter duty the fleet, right, Yeah. So it's it's funny because you get to wear stetsons, so you get the wear cowboy hat. Yah, it's pretty funny. And spurs because cavalry is the horse horses, right. So back we're carrying that tradition, yeah, within the modern force. And so when you have formations and different kind of big moments, the stats and and you earn your spurs, basically they have like the little internal Units challenge that says, hey, you're a spur holder now, and so it's pretty funny. There's a lot of a lot of heraldry behind a lot of tradition behind it, and of course they're just carrying that through. And so it's funny because it's always a competition, which is what you want in regards to the military. So think and the tearing. It's like infantry is the badasses, right, and then calvary is like, oh man, they're just trying to, you know, be like infantry guys. But it's a different mindset honestly because basically they're their focus in the cavalry realm is really is a reconnaissance piece and so basically they don't have a lot of the big guns that the infantry companies would have because they could be light and nimble, and they're basically their goal and their training is designed to be able to go out into sector get all the information they can to bring it back to the leaders to then shape the battlefield. Not on horseback, not on horseb Okay, I'm just trying to follow that. Yeah, okay, but you're I. See what you're saying. So that's okay. It's got to be a fun part though, that's very fun. So where you stationed when this kind of stuff happens from liberty, where do you go to? So liberty. Oh yeah, yeah, graduated. Kind Of an interesting dynamic is some officers after they commissioned, they actually don't get paid until they report to their first whatever duty it is. So I had a couple of friends who didn't have a job for six months. You know, they got commissioned, but they technically don't get paid until they show up to their next duty station. And so I was fortunate enough. They're like, hey, you know, Lieutenant Walls, you're going to go to Fort Lewis, Washington and be a cadre member for this evaluation process. Basically, it's called Leadership at a Time Leadership Development Accession course, and it's like the first or sorry, the last thing you do between your junior and senior year as a cadet, your final evaluation. So there's a lot of stress involved. So they're like, hey, and as much as you have what one year of college difference, I want you to go and evaluate the guys that you're gonna be, you know, seeing down range eventually. So I did that for a couple of months and then from Fort Lewis to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and that was for a basic officer leadership course which they phased out but basically their their goal with that was a hey, we're gonna take all these branches, you know, the m I, the military intelligence guys, the financial guys, all the soft namesses, and we're gonna put them in like a infantry style of training so that they have that baseline just in case they have to beget into a situation at least know that. So they did that. Fort Sill was really hot when I was there was just a great place regardless. But that was in three or four months. And then Fort Knox, Kentucky, and that was the Armor Basic course. That was basically saying, hey, this is your branch. So I got the drive, get licensed, get the dow gunnery on Abrams, which is crazy. You know, you're twenty one, twenty two and second lieutenant you're driving the tank. Around like well this is kind of weird. But then did the same thing with Bradley's and then they had a second set where like all right, now your cavalry. So then they'll send you out and you just walk around. So from that to Fort Knox to stay there for another couple of months doing a thing called Army Reconnaissance Course, which is like a souped up version of ALBC, but more kind of getting the big picture of like, hey, what's your goals when you become a cavalry officer and really getting nested down to the reconnaissance piece. And then finally got to my unit, which was at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and it was not funny, it was it was kind of surreal. Well, I was at Fort Knox. My unit was actually down at Fort Polk doing their their upcycle training for deployment. So I knew kind of early on that hey, I'm gonna probably hit this window. As soon as I get to Fort Campbell, I'm gonna probably deploy. So I got to Fort campbellon thirty days later, I get deployed Afghanistan. Wow, you know, it's so funny because it's like, man, I don't know nothing. Yeah, and even even more sorel saw, I'm an Air Defense Artillery off. What are you? Twenty two yeah, twenty three. Years old Air Defense artillery offics or brands detailed armor get sent to an infantry company and like what is this think? I don't know what I'm doing. And that was the extra lieutenant basically waiting for an opportune leader spot to open up so I was just this minion, which is good because I got the watch before I became actually a leader of men and so but you know this thirty days, you know, so I missed all the technical like certification process that they all did. So again they're gonna inject me into this and I have no background of what they did for the past six months. They get ready for deployment. I'm just gonna get shown up and hopefully I get shot. So well, I mean, that is that a call? Hey, come to my office? How is that? How is the diplom because you're d had said when he was on a couple of weeks ago that it was Westpac or something. Right, Yeah, I didn't know what Westpac was, and he said, you're going to Vietnam. I mean, yeah, I mean, what's that? How does that look? Well? I mean, for for me, as soon as I got my orders, even at Liberty, I had a good idea of because like I said, they were they were so there. There's you know, during Iraq and Afghanistan, you had key divisions that were constantly deploying, so the Tenth Mountain eighties, so basically you can look down and see Okay, so third brigade just got back. It looks like second brigade. Oh okay, it's up on the queue. So you would always have this cycle. And then that was before I actually got nested with like talking to the right people. That was just me just doing some analysis. Basically, I'm just looking online. But then as soon as I got my orders, I was able to call. You know, you have liaisons basically. Who's given you those orders? So the pack it comes down from a bunch of civilians, which is pretty cool. I mean they have they have military guys with them, but ultimately, up at four Knox, they just changed it. Four Knox kind has become more of the central focus of the branch, and I butchered this like detail off. Basically, they're the ones that put you where you want to or where you want to go, where they want you to go kind of thing. So if I stuck in. Longer, I would be reaching out to this guy and saying, hey, what are the openings. Oh, you can go to Darmstock, Germany, you know, go to Stuttgart, you can do all these different things, and you kind of figure out. But these guys will sign and they they're just looking at the numbers like, Okay, we got all these guys coming up from all these different schools. Let's put him here and put him there. And so it comes down and it all lands into your email basically once you get that going, and then you're like surprise. So then uh, once I got my orders, I kind of knew that there was going to be a high probability. There was a little bit of a nuance to it because sometimes you would have officers and new guys show up to the units, and depending on the leaders, they might just say, hey, we're going to keep you back on they call it rear D for a couple of months so you can train up a little bit. But then I like my commander, he's like, yeah, we're gonna take you with us. So, now, what's Afghanistan? What's the picture in two thousand and eight? Two thousand is it? Two thousand and eight nine? Two nine, Well ten was going to deploy, but two thousand nine, yeah. Yeah, So in twenty ten and you're in Afghanistan, what's what's Afghanistan look like? I mean, what's going on in before? And therefore that because I've often wondered this, the farthest you've been is Oklahoma or Washington. You've not gone overseas, right, Yeah, what's Afghanistan look like? You're right, what does it look like? But I mean what does it really look like? I mean, you have no clue what you get to do. It was pretty interesting, like I said, thirty day training or really it was more like we were just loading up all our connexes and getting ready to deploy. And it was me just picking people's brains because you have all these information streams, you know, so the S two so they have like different acronyms, of course, but the intel officer for the battalion or squadron is getting all this information fed up from the brigade, from the division, and so there's they're slowly letting you know, like hey, this is the picture of where we're going, and this is what. So which is interesting is we got a signed to RC South, which is Kandahar. So Canadar Airfield is one of the bigger obviously names. But they're like, hey, I remember we had a company formation in the company commanders like, hey, we're gonna get I think the phrase you used was the heart of darkness. He's like, yeah, there hasn't been a NATO force presence in the a area of operation the AO that we're going to in the past two years. So you can imagine it's going to be pretty interesting, right, And so he painted this picture like we're all gonna die. So we're like, okay, cool, well, least as a second lieutenant walls, like, oh my gosh, we're going to the heart of darkness. Okay wow. So then we're getting all this nap and imagery and kind of get an idea of what we're going to land. And once it got pushed out into the sector and really cool. I mean. What it was very flat, obviously very arid, but the primary legal product grown there was grapes in that region. And what they did was they would actually the wealthier you were, as that farmer, that landowner, the taller, they would actually make walls out of mud so be vertical, straight on one side and they don't have a slant so the vines could grow up on the other side. And so the richer you wore, the taller walls were basically you had more more production. So I mean the primary growth products, of course were poppy marijuana and then grapes. Oh and so you had to go out into sector and you'd be in these marijuana fields are a ten foot tall lord? Ok, yeah, those nuts. So it's like what does you know? You come back and just covered in dust, covered in and then of course you see the Afghan guys just grabbing some pieces and taking it with them, pocketing it and getting ready to light up that night. But it was very interesting because basically you could see from our ao all the way down to the red the desert which is south of Arghandab River Valley. So you had this really interesting clear line of sight. Are you interacting with the people of Afghanistan too, well, yeah, you were mentioned and they were like grabbing things? Are you on their pockets? Are you on a base at that point? Yeah? So we got to Canar Airfield, so we actually it was funny as we flew commercial. So we went from Fort Campbell to bangor Maine, Bangor Maine to I can't remember where. A typical flight, Yeah, I think it's like the check and then checked to Kazakistan and there was an Air Force installation called Manis. I think that's what Manus was the name. It was interesting because that was the first like oh or landing in a military uh, installation which is run by the Air Force, and they had like bars and so of course everyone who was stationed there could participate, but those guys who were just cycling through it was not allowed. It's like okay, cool, that's fair. So we're just there for a couple of days and then we finally, you know, flew into Afghanistan on a military plane and so we flew in to Kandahar. We did a training cycle. I think it was two weeks, three weeks, and basically you're you're getting your theater property, you're getting all that, which is surreal at time, and all the stuff that we left behind. Of course, so this all this equipment that we didn't have home. So M A t V's M wraps all these really high speed pieces of equipment. What is so basically the army the Army created, you know, so we were being smart and creating products, vehicles platforms that were designed to interdict at least as best we could for I e. D s. And so they had these new vehicle systems and of course M a TV stands for something I can't remember, M wrapped the same thing, but basically it's two different vehicle platforms that were super duty. They're basically like hum v's on steroids. To to this, to the point where some of the mt M A t v s had a crow system which basically you would have either fifty calid marked nineteen mounted on top and you would have your gunner actually in the vehicle with the screen and a joystick controlling it versus him being into the gunners. This is the way we need to hunt. Yeah, oh yeah, that's infrared, a really cool platform. So you don't have the guy up on the turret up above anymore. There's like a ratio. Basically you have like two or three per convoy on half of the crows. But you got the cool one there. Well, I have a funny story about that was when we finally got to Kandahar and deployed. We got assigned to what they called at the time FOB Wilson, so Ford Operating Base Wilson, and then of course the wokeism came into play mid deployment and they had to change it to a local name FOB SAB. Yeah, they gotta be nice. So you're you're experiencing woke stuff even back then, right, Well, I mean or friendly stuff. I go, yeah, so I mean, that was one of the things that I am. We can always talking to you later, but basically the military is a spearhead in multiple ways. In one of those ways is unfortunately that kind of stuff you were you're seeing those things earlierly. So the d I you know, Sony. So so we have bases in Afghanistan at this time, so we've built it. Okay, Yeah. So basically, so Helmsdale Province was the next province to the west, was controlled by the Marines, and so we would hear contacts and stuff, and our our battalion wasn't on the border between helms but. We were the next one over, so we would hear. About it, and we would hear our sister battalion go and do some support missions with the Marines. So they'll do that kind of divvy up the land. You're gonna own this land. You're gonna own this land. The Marines are over here owning this land. Army you're gonna be here, and then the divvy up between that organization. So then we got from Bob Wilson. That's when we started having the fun stuff. We were pushing out in the sector and claiming then basically saying hey, there hasn't been a NATO force. We're gonna start doing presidence patrol. We're gonna start pushing out into sector and then start establishing combat outposts basically just smaller versions of those fobs. The fobs are huge. Basically you can put an entire brigade within that installation and have plenty of room. Still, so do you have people under you at this point? So I didn't really gets signed a platoon until roughly five months into the deployment. So the platoon that I took over and they, you know, they try to do this rotation internal. That platoon leader moved into the executive officer position. Basically you have your company commander who's the top, first sergeant who's really the top, but he's in the ilicted sector. And then obviously XO is the the next guy under the company commander who does most of the logistics and support all the stuff the community doesn't want to do. Basically, So I took over that platoon because he was a senior platoon leader and he got promoted to the executive officer spot. So I took over third platoon, and so that's when we took over. Literally, it was a compound. We took over the previousting structure, made it into a patrol base, basically just kind of made it defendable, little creature comforts, a nice little you know whole for you know, all the number twos and all that is. Basically just try to make it habitable, knowing that eventually we're going to go a little bit further south and build this nice combat outpost, which is a segue to the engineering thing, which is funny. Succinctly remember having to be I'll still a second lieutenant in charge of supervising CBS. So the Navy sent out these cbs who are in their engineering asset. They obviously vertical and horizontal components to that, but they had all this heavy equipment and they were all and they had carpenters on their team. They actually built this nice framed talk which is basically a tackle center. But we're pulling security for him, and we'd had a couple of kinetic interactions, you know, basically some rounds fired, and it was funny because ultimately the CVS were like, hey, you're here for us, and I'm like, god, that's fair enough. Because they had like. Sixteen's, like these long rifles. And one of the funnier stories is while we were building this cop one of the heavy machine operators climbed out of his his bulldozer and he's like, oh, where's my rifle And we're like, oh my gosh. What So he looked over and he actually ran over and sixteen and demolished it. And so like in the army, that would have been like, you're you're in trouble. You're gonna lose rank. It's a big deal. But then when their chief found I, he's like, oh, it's okay, we'll get you another one. I was like, all right, these guys are cool. So now is there any threat where you are? I mean, is there any Afghani threat? I mean, is anything going on? Yeah? So it was cool. One of the cooler contact moments. You know what we'll do is we'd post up while we're building this combat outposts and they're using these Hesco barriers, which is basically these like nettle kind of they would wrecked and you would fill up with dirt and it would make these really ingenious you know, easy installation and construction basically wall and then they'll stack you too high and then they'll put these at the corners. Basically, these these towers so you can have overwatch and insecurity. But while they're building it, obviously we're there and we have our m ATV's m RA apps as our gun platforms, pulling security on all all the apex. And so one day I'm sitting there and trying to keep myself busy. I set my vehicle up on the road adjacent and I was actually doing like I was stopping people. I was searching them. Come on, you know, I'm here. I'm just going to talk to people and I'm gonna look through their bags, which is being a dumb second lieutenant. And obviously I had guys with me, so I wasn't just by myself. But I'm sitting there waiting for the next you know, motorcycle to pull up or whatever, and started getting some rounds fired into our our you know, construction site basically, and it. Was like it was southeast of where I was. So I started running just to get to my guy's vehicle that was closest to that point of contact. And so the funny moment was as I was running, there was a bulldozer driving, and so I just got behind the bulldozer and he said, keep going, keep going, keep going. So I just drove rode behind there, walked behind this bulldozer to get to my guys, just trying to get more information, like, hey, how far is it where there's a contact and all they're doing is just taking some pop rounds. It was anything crazy where they're doing some kind of assault, but they were just trying to say, hey, we're here. We don't like what you're doing. Yeah, he starts the story with the funny party is talking about live round then part is. Yeah, but there was like a school. So you know, Afghanistans a hot mess. Everyone knows that, and so there was yeah, I'm not sure who built it, but there was these key installations and one of them that was nearby our combat outposts. Was this this school that was built. You know, it was some mission that was established and of course it failed. You know, they came in and took it over and basically kicked everyone out and said, hey, this is not what we want you guys to do. Won't you learn anything? Right? But then they use that as kind of like their staging point. It would go out from that school and do like little you know, salt or contact missions that they would, so we knew it was from that area and that was exactly where those rounds were coming from. But very interesting segueing back to it. So a second lieutenant, we're building this combat outpost and these these cvs are keep there asking me questions like, hey, where do you want us to finish this wall at, you know, like all this stuff. I'm like, I don't have any rank. I'm not and so I knew, like it was one of those moments where it's like, oh my gosh, this is going to impact for the next five ten years my decision on following forces. Yeah, and so I was like, all right, well, you know, in the absence of guidance, someone make my best guess. Yeah, exactly. It was funny. It's just like a humbling moment, like they're asking these questions and I'm a second lieutenant and some colonel is going to find out getting mad. And it's also it's a big when you're that young, and like Brian had asked you about when you take over and you've got people that are veterans that have been in the military around you too, and you're the second lieutenant, so you take take you know, grief from Yeah, take grief from all the old salts and veterans and people that have been there, and you don't know anything that you're doing, and you've got to make decisions and you're the one responsible for him. So's it's a lot of responsibility and pressure on a young person. And oftentimes I've always wondered, because I mean, I do it, I build out in my head what actually is going on over there, so you get dropped into it and then is it totally different than what you've thought in your head or you're like, no, this is pretty accurate. So obviously because you've trained, but you've not trained for what you're actually doing, right, Yeah, I mean, the it's such a it was such a convoluted conflict, you know, so. In as much as nothing compared to World War Two, and that you know, true sense. Once we established these fortifications, these combat outposts, these patrol but we were basically secure. We knew we can go to sleep at night and not unless you know, at least the Narci South. There's obviously other regions in the country that based on elevation dynamics and a lot of whether it be mortar, rocket attacks or you know, they're they're shooting up from this mountaintop down to the valley, that kind of stuff out on Narsy East. But where we were, we just had such a presence that we didn't have that concern of being overwhelmed. And so it's like. The differentiation between those prior conflicts and you know, being in a situation where you know you can get killed any moment kind of thing. For us, it's like, all right, well we're in we're in our house. No one's gonna mess with this. But the compounding thing was that what you who you were finding wasn't black and white. It wasn't a clear thing. So, for example, one of the things that would kind of be consistent is that you would have these random you know, as we're doing like a presence patrol as an example, Basically we're just going out into sector, showing force, trying to get some information, having key leader engagements, talking to the elders of the village, just trying to build some rapport, just getting some some information. Honestly, you would have these rounds just roundly off, you're like okay, so then you try to like figure out where it came from, usually just one guy, right, and so talking to the interpreters talking to the So one of the big things during our time was was Karzi was in power, and so you had these rules cars like twelve, and one of them was we couldn't do a patrol without a counterpart, So whether it be an Afghan National Army or an Afghan National Police force within our so we would in order for us to move, you had to have an Afghani partner with you. Yeah, so then you build these relationships, but ultimately you're asking questions like yeah, man, that's this guy who just shot at us. He's getting paid like five bucks to pick up this random AK forty seven that was dropped off. You know, five bucks is like two months for them. And so we're just we're shooting and potentially killing these guys that are just trying to survive. Yeah, you really fighting the guy who's calling the shots. He's causing these insurgency type things. So, as you know then, so it is this hard to figure out what the best course of action was based on those constraints, like, man, what. Was the reception you get from the civilian people that you're walking by and having an interpreter talk to you. Are they. Looking at you like what the hell are you doing here? Or about two thousand and nine. Yeah, they're probably starting to get fed up with us being there. Right, Well, here's a good snapshot. So when we were down establishing her patrol base and then their cop there was this random mount this hill, and it was definitely unique. You know, there was nothing other than this mountain range in the far distance that was controlled by the Canadians. There was no real elevation changes in at least the good ten miles. It's all flat. And then you would have these in amounts and they were like I don't know how tall, but it was significant where you could see and I'm like, what is that? And usually it would have. A compound on it. Somebody just built their house on top of it. And then you talk to the locals like, yeah, those were built by Alexander the Great, no kidding, So you had these installations built. So these people have been their. History is not our history. Well we're seventeen seventy six in our history, you know what I mean. That's amazing. But you just think about that their culture is engrossed with conflicts. Yeah, so we're just the revolving door. Yeah, right, exactly. So the Russians were here. Okay, cool, there's another key interesting dynamic. You'd have all these blonde hair, blue eyed, red hair, no way. Afghanis no way. Yeah I never knew that, just because the Russians had been there. Yeah, yea yeah. So you'd have these like random dude in Afghan National Army fatigues and you're like, you did not look the part right, and then you're talking, you know, to the interpreter's like, oh yeah, his great grandma got stuff. That makes a lot of sense though, So it's just surreal, like we're just that that was racy. Yeah, that was crazy. So it was one of those things where we knew that we were just a revolving door, like they've seen everything. So how long is your this is your deployment, So how long were you there? So we did eleven months, We didn't do a full twelve. I forgot what the justification was, but basically the unit that releaved us came early. Kind of thing. Are you relieved to come home? Yeah? I mean obviously I enjoyed coming home. It was interesting, especially the guys like my platoon sergeant. He was a young, crusty old dude, like it was surreal. That was his fifth. Deployment, and I mean he was only thirty. Maybe maybe not mean that. It's one of those things where it's like you've been through it. So for him, obviously he was just done. He was tired of doing that. You know. He finally he came home and got married and he started finding the right jobs of make sure he wouldn't deploy as much. But ultimately, for me, even why I'm bringing this all up is you you developed this this core of soldiers and you learned to you know, yeah, you know love them, but basically they they watched your back, You watched theirs. You went through hellen back to a degree with them, and you kind of reminisce you miss that time. Yeah, it sucked in the moment, but obviously it made you the better person in the end. And then it got to the point, unfortunately, where you would see those who were better off being deployed. Yeah. So I would have really good soldiers that I deployed with when I came home became really bad soldiers because they just could not cope and they wanted to be in conflict. They wanted to do the things. You know, it's a big army situation. It's basically overseas, you're you're a big boy. You know, you had your left and right limits, but you know you were able to make good decisions and you know, at the lowest level, you know you trusted, but you still had your roles of engagement, all that kind of stuff you'd fallow. But when you came home, you became your baby. You're like, Okay, make sure you have your your rifle up and down range when you're actually you know, doing your qualifications like yeah, no, duh, Like and then it became like this overarching like you just didn't feel like you were respected. So where do you come back to when you come back from deployment? Where do you land back into? You're back at for Campbell or Campbell? Yeah, did you just serve out the rest of. Your Yeah, so the four years active I did. I stayed at Fort Campbell. Was the decision? After your four years? Was it difficult to walk away? So it was interesting because when I got back from the ployments and kind of get settled, probably six months later, my wife and I were talking, were like, yeah, I think we can do this twenty year thing. Because she was not initially she was is. She your wife, the first time wife is just coming and just got settled six months. When did this happen? So I went to liberty, right, so I got I did the whole ring before spring, so we got engaged before. She got a Liberty. That's hilarious. Yeah, yeah, so it was. It was pretty interesting because. Is she staying Fort Campbell while you're in afghanis now back home? She came home? Okay? Yeah, so I we got engaged in December. I graduated in May, got commissioned in May. We got married in May. Okay, Lord, is she a yorktown girl? She No, she's from Lynchburg. Oh yes, that's why we came back after the active army, you know, so long as your short we said, hey, we can do twenty years. And then we were in a small group at church. I was the small group was funny because it was just me and one other guy and there's all a bunch of leaders. So of course me and the other guys are talking. And he just retired from doing insurance. I was like, oh, that's interesting. My family does insurance. My dad, my grandfather started it kind of thing. And so he was talking to me and so eventually I think it was like year a year left in my contract, and my dad called me. He's like, hey, man, I don't know if you would ever be interested if you were are thinking about getting out, but if you do, you can always come and join me. And I kind of laughed it off, and then I got into the small group started talking to the guy and I kind of told him, you know the situation. He's like, if you don't strongly consider it, you're an idiot, because you I know you know this, but the military does not value family. You know, the military primary is, you know, the top three things is army, army, army, and the fourth is family, like in regards to what's the most important. And so I was like, okay, you know. It's difficult. Took it to. Heart, and so that was the kind of, you know, after weighing my options, like you know, and then that had some culminating events that really pushed me out of deciding not to do it, just some bad interactions with toxic leadership. I was like, all right, sure, yeah, So it's kind of that was the nail that finalized it for me. I was like, you know, what if I stay in here and I don't go with certain routes and I'd stay in the big army. Then I might become that toxic leader that I don't want to be interesting. Yeah. So then but so you went insurance coming out of the army, But then you got the National Guard. Would you just miss being around the military, and so you re enlisted or I mean not reenlisted, but yeah, we signed up for the military. So they have a program where you you transition from the active to the Guard, and so I got into that path and the justification primarily was kind of a soft transition. I was like, oh, you know, I'm so interested in serving and I really am interested in health insurance. So I got set up and actually went to unit at in Portsmouth, which was not it was a cavalry unit. So I was like, okay, it's good, you know, easy transition over to that organization. And so I stuck that stuck out with the Guard for another five years and really good interaction. I'm really surprised. It was funny, you know, based on my dad's conversations about his Guard experience, He's like, yeah, man, we just go and hang out on the drill weekends. And try not get in trouble, Like, oh, we can do that. It's fun. So go from those stories to then go into the actual current gardens like night and day. They're a well organized just they get stuff done. Yeah really yeah surreal. I mean basically they're required their their goal is to maintain the same standards as the big army with an eighth to the sixteenth of the time, you know, because. The only yeah, you got what two weeks summer and then weekends. Then a certain amount of they called mudas of drill weekends a year, and so they're like, hey, we won't you do all this stuff with no time? So did you any of that time frame, did you have any orders or anything to do any anything other than your normal weekends? And uh. Yeah, I mean it's kind of a negative thing, but I was being careful. So when I was in the active Army, I was I went from between leader to the executive officer. And so in my last year and a half of being at Fort Campbell as the executive officer for the same company, Charlie Company that I was deployed with. But during that tenure, I was acting commander. The commander and a bunch of other key leaders within my company, and technically the battalion squadron got deployed and they're doing like this unique they kind of try to do like a Special Forces thing. They're like, hey, we're gonna take all these key leaders and we're gonna send them out to attach to a different you know, whether it be Afghan National Police or army, and they'll be like a liaison, they'll teach, coach, mentor but we're gonna leave the executive officers and then all the soldiers behind. So I had like ninety percent of the company with no leaders other than me and the couple of East six's to run this and anyway, as loss very short, so I had acting commander time, but technically not company commander time. I wasn't true like being rated as a company commander. So when I got into the Guard, then I moved from Portsmouth to Fredericksburg. And then when I was in Fredericksburg, I was a company commander up there for a engineer company. So that's you know, during the day to day I was doing insurance, and then during the weekends, during drill and during the annual training, I was doing the Guard stuff. And then a couple of times before I took over the engineer company. I got picked up to be a company commander, and it was one of those like, hey, congratulations you're a company commander. Oh, by the way, they're going to deploy in a couple of months. I was like what, OK. Yeah, it was like it was one of those things. I was like, man, this is interesting because if if if I wasn't starting my own business and basically a sole proprietor hip and you guys were actually deploying somewhere cool, that would be all about it. But they were going to like cool Sinai Peninsula and Cutter mm hmmm. So it's like these really oddball mission sets that were basically just pulling security. So like, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. So I said thanks for no things, and then I finally picked up a job up at Fredericksburg. Yeah, so it was interesting. It was one of those things where those are the. Guys to activates the National Guard. When there's in the National Guard get activated, like tornadoes and stuff like that hit or am I thinking something. Yeah, the governor activates the Guard. Governor does, so you're. You swear allegiance to the governor as well as the president. So you're technically the governor's the main and then they'll they'll title ten you and deploy you. And so you have these, you know, guardians to get overseas. The first interaction I had with the Guardian in Afghanistian was a route clear its package basically you know, I d So it was interesting. I was like, man, and they're actually pretty high speed, very cool. So you interact with people you've been in do you still stay in touch with with people? Not as much as I should. Honestly, I have a couple of friends that I do reach out to, but not as many as you know. I stay in touch with them, but not on the regular. It's kind of hard. Yeah. Everyone once they get out, they got to do their own thing and you can only have you know, conversations about the same stories over and over again kind of thing. So I just I never really kept up with as many as I would want. And most of the people I interact with currently their military bye bye preifery were guys that I went to college with. Of course that commissioned. So you're Fredericksburg, How did you end up back? So all the while I was living in Lynchburgh, yep. So when I was down in Portsmouth. I would drive down there, Oh okay, and then same thing for Fredksburg, and every time, you know, it all would end up at at Fort Picket. So I always it was funny. I'd go to Portsmouth and I drive by Picket and know that in six hours we'd driving back to Picket. But I had to go to the. Unit first, and I got to meet your brother. He's a pretty strack dude still, right, I mean, both of you all looked like you could jump right back in the military right now. Oh what did he what did he think of your service? And what did he end up going to? What did what is he at a different location than you are you're both serving at the same time or what was that like? Family wise? Yeah, so. We were I don't even know how many years. I guess it was like two or three years. Yeah, okay, so longsttery is short. He did. He was a signal noncommissioned officer for the majority of his active service, so he was actually primarily stationed I think for eight or nine years in Germany, which is pretty cool to go visit him during that. But then when we were both in the military, he was at Fort Drum. I think he deployed the same timeed but to Iraq. Okay, so it was kind of interesting. But you know, he was an NCO and he had a lot of years so he was a first sergeant during that time. Okay, so it was very interesting. And then he give you a bunch of shit for being an officer. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean it was. It was great. I mean he taught me a lot. You specially second tent. You really don't. You don't earn your voice until you're at least the first attenant. Yeah, if you're doing it right. Yeah, So when you're a second tem you just shut up and you listen to your platuon start, and you listen to any higher rank in East six there is he's six seventy eight, and then you just watch. Yeah, it's the best way to survive, yeah for sure. And so he's like that. So I was all right, So I did it and it worked out great. But a lot of good relationships with then he is because of it. So a bunch of parents, your dad, they had to be worried. I mean both of y'all are deployed across the globe, want an Iraq and one in Afghanistan. Yeah. I mean they obviously really supportive. I mean we try to interact with them as much as they could be an email basically, but yeah, they were just not trying to worry to death. So how do you communicate with your wife while you're in Afghanistan? Facebook? Really? Yeah? No, kid, that was the most immediate other than an email. But most of the time we would time it and we would just chat. Yeah. Cool. That was pretty funny. And I did have a phone. I got a civilian phone, so. No, it was crazy. It's crazy they I mean they have a network, no, kid, Yeah, you just go to the hodgy stand and buy a cell phone and get a SIM card. And they had so they would they control the towers so they would turn them off at night. Yeah, but you can, you can call on their network. Wow. Well, I appreciate you coming in. Yeah, really cool. If we learn a lot, I mean I've I have no idea, like I learned so much in these segments, so we appreciate you coming in. Before you go, we always ask our guests if you could pick anybody in history, whether they're still around or not, who would you hang out with in a twenty four hour period and where would you hang out with them, you pick anybody in history. Oh my gosh, hmmm, we love putting people on the spot. Well, honestly, be kind of one of these either Patent or MacArthur kind of things. Wow, that's cool in the area of where their most influential in that. Yeah, just because you know, you can read about them. It would be interesting to actually see what they were like in real life and you can imagine what they were thinking. But ultimately be cool to just interact with them just because like having a beer with Oh my god, no doubt, it'll be surreal. So one of those type of things. Obviously there's probably a better answer to that, but that would be kind of my knee jerker h answer. Well, again, thank you for spending some time with us, and thank you for your service again. Yeah, thank you very much.